Stanly: There are couple of things I would like to say from Odanadi's side while thinking about education, rehabilitation etc. of children of sexually exploited and commercially sexually exploited women. Some sensitive point which we have to focus on while doing rescue oeprations and why the rescue operations are sometime not successful. Personally I give more importance to rescue the minors. It is not necessaily restricted to only sex trade. Trafficking is taking place for various reasons and minors are victims in many ways. Who could be the traffickers? We always talk about them as taking up this [trafficking] as a profession. It is not that. We have evidence to say that the person nextdoor could be a trafficker. The person who was supposed to take care of the society and teach/protect our children could be traffickers. We have booked several people. It is not an isolated case. It is happening everywhere. It has not been registered because of several social reasons. What could the model residential place? How could we arrange a homely atmosphere for the children who have had traumatic experiences? What do they really need - structure, food, clothing? How can we expand our program - not as an NGO - to existing movements? Trafficking is happening from the grassroots but we are talking more about the demand areas. You can catch one person but not the whole trafficking network. It starts from remote village and ends in the cities. During that period, some people might think that they [the girls] are taken overnight to Bombay. But in some cases, it is true. In many cases, the girls are taken to the nearest town. Lots of things happen there. Traffickers have their own training centers where they try all possible methods to tame the girl - punitive or giving some joyful atmosphere - good food, alcohol and movies. I can give evidence for all this. They are taught how to behave with the customers. In case of stubborn girls, there is mass rape. It has happened in residential areas. The money involved in Kamatipura is nothing when compared to hitech brothels which have been running all over India in disguise. The main problem is that it is difficult to identify the brothels. In redlight areas, atleast you can see and say this is place where the girls are staying. But unfortunately hitech prostitution happens in the middle of residential areas in mansions. People see official cars coming in and going out. Girls are told that we cant do anything to the brothel owner and that he knows many people - inspector, officials etc. come to the brothel. Psychologically they are dependent for support from the traffickers. We had a strange experience recently, probably because of lack of infrastructure. There was no fence here six months back and all the girls stay here. They love to stay here because we have given them a lot of freedom to those children. They go to morning and evening walks and perform exercises outside. We also involve and allow like-minded people to talk to the children - many government organizations dont allow contact with the children. Like us there are many people who spend time with this children. It gives them a lot of emotional and moral support to the children. Involving the children in day-to-day decision making is also important. Thats why they are happy - not because of the structure. The building [old one] was not constructed in a planned way and we used recycled old tins, windows and other materials. There are only two dormitories - big and small. This building [new one] is more planned. There children are very happy with the limited services. What they need is emotional and moral support, and some people to identify themselves with - grandma etc. In the rescue operations, majority of them are successful because we involve like minded people from various movements. We sensitize the media persons. Odanadi collects and filters information, and involve noted personalities, like writers, during the rescue operations. Police cannot deny or take it as a light effort - when noted people are involved. We do very good documentation from the beginning - video, audio, our statements and records. Culprits cannot play. Judges have to rely on evidences which are strong. Immediately after the rescue, we take the girls into confidence - not as criminals. That gives a shift from depending on the traffickers to persons like me. This is a big discussion. There are lots of hurdles in trafficking. To trap the traffickers, we have to become victims. In our operations, either we are booked or in other cases, we are the witnesses. Today we are supposed to attend a case. We spend most of our time in the courts - as victims or accused. We are vey happy that it gives us results. Police had to take necessary action in many cases. Julia: I am still unclear about how you are the accused. Stanly: Our society and the government still thinks that responsibility and rights dont go together - unlike what is written into the constitution. We are enjoying many right - fundamental rights, human rights etc. We are not delivering our responsibility properly. When somebody's rights are violated infront of me, I cant bear it. I have to stop it. I cant call the police. I can do the police job which is called social policing. That is being followed in many western countries but in our country, this is not followed. It is not according to ITA [Immoral Trafficking Act]. You can have your own social policing. Those police who are booking us, NHRC is acknowledging. NHRC is taking our approach as a model. Even though we are book again and again, NHRC we are with us. Just as we are booking others, any person can give a complaint against us under IPC - whether culprit or not. For example: Tresspassing - we have to enter houses. Kidnapping - we have to take traffickers from one place to another. Attempt to murder, manhandling - Sometimes the girls parents are with us. They get disturbed and beat the traffickers. It comes back to us. We are working with the police but we had some bad experience because we exposed the police who were running brothels in police quarters and outside. After that there is no point in informing the police. They will go to the brothels and collect bribes. Sometimes they make a diluted FIR. You must know the IPC laws and ITA. Some IPC laws are stronger than ITA.